Why the Moral High Ground Makes Opposing the LRT Hard

If somebody came here to read this site, they might think based on the comments that I am the only one opposing the LRT. And yet when I go out into the world I am always quietly approached with the opposite, with people saying how thankful they are that someone is speaking up. Why the disconnect?

It was only in a recent debate in the comments that it finally clicked: anyone pro LRT has the moral high ground. Of course we should drive less. Of course we should take transit. Of course we shouldn’t pave over our beautiful earth. Over course we shouldn’t pollute the air we breathe. Of course we should stop sprawl.

And so it is easy to attack, and hard to defend. Ted, can’t you see how wrong you are? Don’t you love the planet too? But no matter how warm and fuzzy the LRT makes us feel, or how proud we think we will be to look at it and say look how forward thinking we are, it won’t make one ounce of difference if nobody takes it. That is why I am opposing the LRT.

Driving in Waterloo is fast. There is almost never traffic, and parking is almost always free. This is one of the things I love about Waterloo: it is a city that never makes you wait, that never asks you to waste your time.

But one day as Waterloo grows this will all change. Traffic will build and parking expenses will grow. But at that point, our city as a technology hub is already done. We will be just like every other big city, except we’ll have all of the disadvantages but more (same congestion, worse transit) and some of advantages but less (less restaurants, less culture, less parks, less everything). Why would anyone choose to live here?

I believe in Waterloo because I believe in UW. I believe that co-op at UW has created the smartest, most ambitious, most experienced technology new grads in the world. That nobody can touch a technical grad from UW. Not someone from MIT, or someone from Stanford. But if our city becomes just like every other city but less, we will lose them all.

If we want to build world class companies here then we need a world class city. The way to do that is not to put in a trolley and say ha, look what we built! The world will simply laugh. Instead, we need to do something different. We need to be bold. We need to accept that the world is changing, and that the rules are changing. We need to be like UW, offering education but with co-op. Or like RIM, offering a PDA but with wireless email. Because otherwise we will become just like everyone else but less.

544 thoughts on “Why the Moral High Ground Makes Opposing the LRT Hard

  1. erich bertussi

    Are you running for office?

    Because that read like a meaningless, empty, vague, lot of nothing.

    You don’t say anything at all.

    You offer no vision, no solution, no reason, nothing tangible.

    It’s like a mediocre ‘elect me I’m good’ speech.

    LRT’s that link malls is total BS. SRTs that link the 5 cores would make much more sense.

    Albeit as far as I knew ground is broke, contracts are signed and this is a done deal. You’re speech is 5 years too late.

    ENB..//

    Reply
    1. Ted Post author

      Hey Erich,

      No, no I am not running for office! Working in tech is too much fun. I also simply don’t think I would be good at it.

      Two things.

      One, in the post above, I disagree. I think I say a lot of things. I say that a) the LRT won’t let us avoid a miserable and congested future, and that b) when we get there are city will be just like everyone else’s, just less, and that will cause all the tech talent to leave (as they largely already do today).

      Two, as I posted earlier, according to the Chief Administrative Officer of the city the train absolutely has not left the station. The city has yet to even receive any proposals for building/operating/maintaining the system. This won’t happen until spring, at which point the council will vote. If the vote is turned down, the trains will simply be returned, most likely at no cost.

      Reply
      1. Andrew Svoboda

        I agree with Erich. You’ve been proposing a ‘solution’ or alternative to the LRT since this blog started. Not once have you shown what the solution is. Instead, you have hidden behind such statements as “Waterloo is different”, and a concept about a walk able city. I’m honestly unsure if this is a large elaborate troll to the Region of Waterloo, because while ignited discussion on the LRT (which is welcome), nothing has yet been said of substance.

        the LRT won’t let us avoid a miserable and congested future
        One of the main purposes of the LRT is to avoid such problems.

        when we get there are city will be just like everyone else’s, just less, and that will cause all the tech talent to leave
        This is a total fallacy. You’re equating tech talent leaving due to transit infrastructure?

        If you want to be part of the discussion, as you have been putting it for weeks, do so. Show me your initiative to put forward planned, well thought out ideas for alternatives to the LRT. Don’t throw around emotional pleas. Use your engineering study background to put forward an analytical approach to what we’re trying to discuss here.

        Reply
        1. Ted Post author

          Hey Andrew,

          You make some fair points. I haven’t put forward a specific solution. But a group of us are working on one, and when it is ready, we will. But in the mean time, I am trying to see if this community can work together to arrive at the same (or even better) solution together. To accomplish this I am trying to do 3 things:

          1) Show that the LRT will not in any way stop roads from crowding as Waterloo grows – nobody will switch from driving until it is basically impossible to drive (induced demand)
          2) Suggest that there is a solution that doesn’t require roads crowding first, which is creating a dense enough area of work/play/sleep/eat so you could walk everywhere, a solution that not only provides the absolute best lifestyle for those that want urban, but also actually gets cars off the road for those that want suburban
          3) Asking the community how they might spark a walkable city if they had $800mm to invest

          On your other points:

          The LRT requires a “miserable and congested future” (roads) in order for people to start riding it. This has been documented in case study after case study, and is simply the other side of induced demand.

          On fallacy, as someone that tries to constantly recruit local tech talent, I can tell you this is already happening – almost everyone graduates and then leaves for NYC/SF/Seattle. Putting in the LRT will absolutely not change this. For those that stay here today, it is because of something. It is because Waterloo is a different life style. One where life is efficient, and you can get around in your cars easily. But if that changes, and Waterloo becomes just like NYC/SF/Seattle but less, why would even those few of us that actually have chosen to stay here not move away?

          Reply
          1. clasher

            You know that those three cities are world class cities in ways that Waterloo will never be, regardless of what kind of infrastructure we have here, right? The culture and scenery of the west coast doesn’t hold a candle and NYC is a world capital on par with London, Hong Kong and Tokyo. Not really a fair comparison at all.

            Also worth noting that in San Fran and NYC the public transportation system is so good that one doesn’t even need to own a car to get around and driving in both cities is kind of silly and pretty inconvenient. Seattle even has an LRT for crying out loud and there is surface rail transit in SF and NYC but it’s more of a heavy rail kind of thing.

            Reply
            1. Ted Post author

              Yes, you make good points.

              I guess that is my hypothesis: if we want to be able to build world class tech companies in waterloo, we are going to need a world class city. RIM got close but ultimately didnt have enough talent to win over time. I wonder where they would be today if they had started the company in SF.

              To me, the only way to build a world class city is to build a world class block. Then, as we expand from there, one day we can add a train. But without a single walkable neighbourhood in Waterloo (at least in my experience, having lived at both Kaufmann and Bauer), by putting in the train we are only further spreading out development and getting further from our great block.

              Reply
              1. clasher

                LOL are you serious? Not a single walkable neighbourhood? Uptown is walkable, it’s ~700 metres to waterloo town square. I know you won’t even walk that much so I’m not sure what you think a walkable neighbourhood looks like but you’re pretty much living it bud. The walk from Kaufmann lofts to central market is less than a km each way, but that hill is killer so there’s that.

                I live right beside Victoria Park and it’s a pretty walkable neighbourhood too, but I’m a whole 1.6km on foot away from the grocery stores on highland road. That’s maybe a 20 minute walk each way, certainly not onerous except in the worst of heat. A bundle buggy lets me carry all the crap I could need for a week.

                Have you ever actually walked anywhere in your life? I mean you can’t even be bothered to walk ~400 metres to the liquor store so please tell us what your walkable neighbourhood looks like… I am not sure how much closer to your house they could build amenities before you’d walk to them? It doesn’t seem you’re willing to walk farther than your elevator.

                Also the reason that we’re not gonna build one fancy block for just tech workers is that this entire region needs higher order transit. We’re much more than just tech companies. There’s toyota and babcox in Cambridge and many other heavy industrial companies that employ large numbers of people, insurance, healthcare and banking sectors, and other kinds of employers and businesses. I can understand that you think tech is all that but the idea that LRT is just here for techies is nonsense. It’s for everyone that uses the central corridor in this region, not the just the city of waterloo.

                Reply
                1. Ted Post author

                  Hey Clasher,

                  Maybe you could help me understand more. Where do you work today? Where do you live? Do you have a car?

                  It is fine to call me lazy, but so is the other 95% of Waterloo. And the reality is, in Toronto I do walk. I don’t drive.

                  Reply
                  1. clasher

                    Like I said, I live downtown Kitchener. I bike everywhere I go in town for groceries and normal errands. I’ll use my car if I need to buy 50 kilos of stuff but otherwise it’s all bike. I couldn’t even tell you the last time I took the bus.

                    I drive to work wherever they send me and it changes without much warning. I work in salt mines and car plants, steel mills and on construction sites all over the province. The longest I’ve ever worked at a place was 9 months and I ended up renting a room beside the place so I didn’t have to spend 2 hours a day (or more) commuting from Hamilton. Coming home to KW in the evening was the worst part of my drive, hands down.

                    I absolutely hate driving but my line of work is pretty profitable despite the expense of a car…. I seek out jobs that I can either get a room close to or in the future I will likely end up working in camp jobs in the far north… I am not sure how much longer I can put up with the driving to be honest. I might just take a big pay cut and go back to a local job.

                    I used to work in town and would commute from DT to north waterloo by bicycle and it was one of the best periods of my life, looking back. I made about half of what I do now but the daily workout and general well-being that came from that much daily exercise is hard to attach monetary value to.

                    Reply
                    1. Ted Post author

                      Hey Clasher,

                      Really appreciate you sharing this, thank you.

                      You say you can’t remember the last time you took the bus. Why do you think you will take the LRT?

                    2. clasher

                      I don’t know if I will take the LRT. I might if I ended up working in town. I don’t take transit now because cycling is a much better “bang for my buck” than any other form of transportation. I will walk a block or two otherwise it’s onto the bike… my poor knees are ruined so I bike to save them.

                      I advocate the LRT because I think it’s the best solution given the cities we currently have and the transit use patterns that are the reality today. I don’t think BRT or some other untried solution is really a good use of public money. Since there isn’t a carbon tax or anything that really accounts for all the environmental damage automobile use and auto-centric development inflicts I also think LRT being a permanent feature of the region’s “spine” will have the effect of creating a corridor of mixed use development that is also conducive to walking and cycling.

                      If Los Angeles can make LRT viable in such a car-centric city, I think Waterloo Region can make it work as well.

  2. Michael Shao

    The sentiments echoed here are actually exactly why I drive. Sure, I’m all for saving the planet, but we can’t do it by heavily inconveniencing the tenants of this great city.

    If I can drive somewhere, finish my business, and drive back in the same timespan it would take me to take one transit route to get there, something is wrong. Considering the low amount of overall traffic, and the high amount of problems on Hwy 8 and the incoming 85, especially w.r.t. traffic congestion on Friday and Sunday nights, I would be more inclined to talk about traffic congestion, rather than “fixing” transit.

    While I agree it’s broken, the LRT is not the solution to fix it. It’s unfortunate that the “moral high ground” appeals to anyone who seems to be doing the right thing, but I agree with you. As an ex-avid Kant follower, the motivation isn’t always on the same page as the intended consequence.

    Reply
    1. Ted Post author

      Haven’t heard of Kant… what is that?

      At some point the roads will become congested. But it is actually well studied now that adding more roads or transit won’t fix that problem – people will always drive until the point of gridlock, and then stop. The concept is called induced demand: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand

      This is why transit “works” in other cities: driving has gotten so bad that it is actually smarter to take transit, even though the average 3 person Canadian family still has 1.65 cars sitting at home.

      So we are at a fork in the road: do we sit by and wait for traffic (and then one day transit) to waste more and more of our lives, or do we try to find a solution to the root problem that gets people out of there cars without requiring that we clog the roads first?

      Now to be fair, no city has ever accomplished this before (that I know of anyways), so how could we? But we have extremely unique circumstances: a world class tech university, a global brand, and wide areas of open space to start from scratch. And so the question is: do we want to become like every other city? Or do we want to be like UW, or RIM, and take a risk and create something unique?

      Reply
      1. Michael Shao

        A simple Google search brings up the famous philosopher in question – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanuel_Kant

        As for the rest of your post, I’m not really well-qualified (or even partially) to talk about potential issues or current issues w.r.t. transit and decision-crafting. I can only humbly submit my own experiences and those of whom I have spoken to about this issue.

        To me, it seems university students who live within a 10 minute walk would much rather just walk. Outside of that “zone” though is where problems start – most will choose to take a car if available, since the busses are always overcrowded and never on the schedule they promise to be on – either being horrendously late or absurdly early.

        I wish I could have gotten some statistics for you as well, but I gave up my tenure as Orientation Executive in August of last year. 🙁

        Reply
        1. Ted Post author

          BAM. Students. Now we are getting somewhere.

          Students all already “work” within a super confined area. A single dense node. And students make up a large percentage (30%?) of the population in Waterloo.

          Students have other needs though as you say, not just living but also eating, shopping, and playing. So two questions.

          First, could we build something that gave students all these things within a 5 minute walk of “work” (school)? What would that look like? What would be the absolute best solution for this “customer”, yet still private and profitable?

          Second, if you could create this, could you then leverage it to get non students, while keeping it dense enough, convenient enough, and comfortable enough that people would still want to walk as it grew? What would this look like? What would it require?

          Because if you could do these two things…

          Reply
          1. Michael Shao

            I agree; the most dense nodes probably reside around UWaterloo and Laurier, meaning that two major “hubs” of stuff to do need to be within a reasonable travel distance to those two nodes. It would have to essentially look like a Conestoga combined with a Revelation – the biggest problem that I see is that drunk students are crashing on the outskirts of town, near where the clubs/bars/pubs are, without a real way home after a certain hour at night. I always volunteer to be a DD when I can, especially since I don’t drink that often, and don’t mind driving friends home when it’s about the safety of those involved.

            In order to “solve this” with transit methods within walking/LRT distance of each respective university, we’d need:

            a) some kind of lounge/coffeeshop (kind of like Sweet dreams in the plaza, but bigger; possibly Dooly’s-style?) – to study / grab food/drinks – kind of like William’s / Starbucks / Tim Horton’s
            b) Movie theatre / some kind of entertainment outlet (I noticed there are no Internet Cafes, public libraries (outside of the university ones), or arcades near either university) – to cool off and chill out
            c) Outlet stores – preferably ones that are all-inclusive (clothing, accessories, electronics!)
            d) Grocery – Calgary is pretty awesome in that there are London Drugs, Safeway, and Co-op, all of which are owned by separate private companies and all of which have their own benefits. If we had a Zehr’s near both universities (the ones currently in Waterloo are way too spread out to be useful; I tend to use Wholesale whenever possible, since Costco is all the way in Cambridge, a 22 minute drive, or a 2.5-hour transit trip), I would definitely encourage myself and my friends to take transit and/or walk. The current state of affairs makes it impossible to do this in a timely manner.
            e) Sports complex (Squash/Racquetball/Tennis/Lacrosse/Basketball/Hockey/whatever – I have no idea what the sports demographics are like here) – what I also seem to notice is that the public gyms provided by both universities are pretty heavily underutilized, either due to lack of awareness or for fear of being unable to work out when going (I’ve had this happen a number of times in my four years thus far). If we had a PRIVATIZED gym that accepted student discounts and gave a reasonable rate, I have a reasonably good hunch that people would start using that one, thus freeing up university resources for those who live too far from campus to pay for these alternative ones.
            f) restaurants / strip mall kind of thing – this could go with the grocery, but essentially it’s the convenience of having everything closer together, kind of like uptown.

            I think that with these, it attracts not only students, but definitely a “young adult” demographic that allows for professionals who are just starting out to live in an area that allows them the convenience to do everything at once. I may be wrong, but I definitely think young families and people near my age (20-30? possibly even 19-30?) would want to live in this kind of area, with these kinds of luxuries and conveniences.

            Then again, I’m pretty biased. Most nights I’d rather just stay in and watch movies. 🙁

            Reply
            1. Ted Post author

              I 100% agree. I think you are bang on. List out every activity people want to do: grocery, movies, bars, etc as you mention above. And then put it right next to where people work, in this case the schools. Then you would have a fully walkable city. It would be small to start, but with momentum it could quickly grow.

              But most exciting, with a huge amount of land all around UW, you could build this from scratch. And rather than it just feeling like your average city block (a good start, but not enough to get people to move here from SF), I think you could do something truly unique. I think you could remove the absolute worst part of walking… which is? 🙂

              Reply
              1. Michael Shao

                I think if the city integrated public services and workplace nodes on the outskirts of this “dense node”, then you would also accomplish the same “desirable nodes” that people would want to live near. Rinse and repeat near “academic” or “economic” centres, and you’re pretty much good to go.

                The absolute worst part of walking is watching a bus go by, and realize that the bus was either insanely early or unacceptably late, and that sucks 🙁

                Reply
  3. lxf

    The fact this argument is 5 years late speaks even more about its urgency.
    Change takes time and effort.

    Reply
  4. Ted Post author

    Yes, I have regretted and apologized for how late it is. But hopefully that also doesn’t make it wrong.

    Reply
  5. clasher

    Did you even read that wiki for Induced Demand?

    Simply put: build more roads and more people will drive. It’s not the other way around.

    The LRT isn’t necessarily being built as part of some “war on the car” or to make everyone who has a car take transit all the time. It’s being built because the ixpress is reaching a point where it’s more expensive and less efficient to keep piling buses on to the road. Every bus has a driver that gets paid, etc. It’s all been researched extensively and document for the last 10 years by the region so don’t ask me to start conjuring up numbers.

    If you think driving is awesome that’s fine but you could at least recognize that it’s awesome because other non-drivers are paying for your roads without enjoying the benefits of fast travel. Imagine how fast buses could go if all those cars weren’t in the way.

    Reply
    1. Ted Post author

      Hey Clasher,

      I responded in your other post. I do like driving. I think it is faster, more convenient, and more efficient than transit. And 96% of people in our region agree.

      The iXpress is not at capacity, not even close. Schedules were cut down in the summer to save a couple of pennies even though full buses were going by. At some point even if King St was just a row of buses, the load could easily be balanced across other streets. We can even one day mark the center two lanes on King St as “buses only”, giving us almost all the same benefits of the LRT. I’ll even pay for the paint!

      My point is not that we need to protect the car, my point is that the car on uncrowded roads is simply incredibly preferred to transit, for obvious and logical reasons. All studies and stats agree. But could there be something that is even better than cars? I think there is, and I think that is walking. But to make this happen we need to spark a walkable city first.

      Reply
  6. clasher

    When buses are full and leaving people at stops, the system is at capacity at those times. A full bus can’t pick up any more people.

    If King Street were full of buses we’d be spending millions on all those drivers. The LRT shines because capacity increases don’t come with labour increases that bus systems have. Buses also break down and wear out far faster than trains do.

    Driving isn’t more efficient than transit… if by efficient you mean “number of people moved along a piece of road per hour” You can fit more people on trains than you can jam in individual cars and move them with less energy and time.

    What is this 96% you’re talking about? I know you have a penchant for making up all kinds of numbers to suit whatever it is you’re trying to say but this one is especially ridiculous.

    Reply
    1. Ted Post author

      Hey Clasher,

      I agree, the 96% stat seemed ridiculous to me at first too! But in fact, it is true (well, it is actually 95.2% – I just re looked it up). It comes from the Region of Waterloo studies (it is the inverse to the stat that today only 4.8% of trips are done by transit in the region). You can find it here: http://www.regionofwaterloo.ca/en/regionalGovernment/resources/waterlooregionprofile.pdf

      On buses, of course they are at capacity when they are full. That was not my point. My point was that the region has CUT BACK the iXpress schedule during the summer, even though there is proven demand (full buses), and that if we are skimping to such an incredible degree on buses, how can we possibly afford the LRT?

      On cost, every implementation of a BRT system (buses in dedicated lanes) has been cheaper than an LRT system except for one instance (can’t remember the city), so “it’s cheaper” is not a good argument for LRT.

      On efficiency, this eventually becomes true once you have a wall of buses, but a) we are very far away from this (buses in Toronto run much more frequently) and b) if this did happen we could load balance across other roads (not only solving this issue, but also making taking transit faster by providing more routes).

      Reply
      1. clasher

        There is plenty of money for LRT it just goes to the police and other (roads, sewers, etc) budgets before it goes anywhere else. There is no political will to implement something like a parking levy to pay for transit.

        Those 96% don’t necessarily agree that driving is better, it’s just the only option that has been built for the majority of the people that live outside the downtown areas. Driving in this country is heavily subsidized and the point transit advocates (and me) are trying to tell you is that if you subsidize and build transit like we do automobile infrastructure you will see higher rates of transit use (see induced demand). It’s not rocket science. Build it and they will come. It worked for cars and it worked when they built the railway network across the country and when they built interurban train service in the first 30 years of the 20th century.

        Do you have a cite for BRT being cheaper over the long haul? Buses break down quicker, need more drivers per passenger, still pollute more and a BRT still has a separate RoW that will cost almost as much to build. Buses are slower to accelerate and that affects scheduling and frequency of service. Buses are also more vulnerable to weather disruptions as well. Trains are more energy efficient than any bus can ever be… steel wheels rolling steel tracks have a much lower friction co-efficient than rubber tires on asphalt. Trains are powered by electricity that can be generated by many different means and I would venture to guess that the total energy required to build a fleet of buses for BRT over the lifetime of the system vs. trains would be more as well. LRT is faster and has capacity that far outstrips BRT. It results in a far more pleasant urban form as well.

        If BRT is so great why are so many people in Cambridge feeling slighted to get it? I think they should be running the train all the way to Ainslie but again, there’s a serious lack of political will to pony up the money to do it.

        Reply
        1. Ted Post author

          Some good points in here for sure.

          On BRT, I agree that train would be better. The author in Walkable City says that on average BRT costs half as much per mile as LRT. That said, BRT is ugly and a train would probably be better.

          But where I disagree is that “if you build it they will come”. Induced demand (although maybe you can point out something I am missing) only applies to cars and roads. Otherwise, why wouldn’t all our bus systems already be full? We built them, but nobody came? Because they simply aren’t as good as cars. Yes, trains are *incrementally* better than buses, but cars, until roads are crowded, will still win.

          There is tons of good stuff on this by “the experts” in Walkable City. Did you get a chance to read this post? http://www.walkablewaterloo.com/seeking-out-experts-jeff-speck-and-walkable-city/

          Reply
          1. clasher

            ixpress service seems to show that if we provide fast, frequent transit that people will take it. Its ridership has grown faster than population growth, especially during a time where as you like to say, driving remains relatively easy and fairly cheap.

            Trains are better than buses. Have you ever ridden a modern LRT? It’s quiet and fast. You can sleep or read, talk with folks since there is no diesel engine chugging away, the trains won’t get cut off like buses do today. They’re only a bit slower than Toronto’s subways and being lower to the ground they’ll have a smoother ride.

            While building a BRT might be cheaper initially, the lifetime costs are what really matter and a BRT road will have to be built for the heavier vehicles and rebuild far more frequently than rails need to be. I would imagine that means digging deeper and laying down rebar and concrete instead of just asphalt. A bus is good for 20 years around here it seems, not many from the early 90s on the road anymore. The trains will last far longer and being all-electric there aren’t as many moving parts to break down.

            Reply
            1. Ted Post author

              If you read my post above, you will see that I agree that LRT is better than BRT 🙂

              I just don’t think either are right

              Reply
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